zeekmund [1k]: he will win zen only if it gonna break dwon
insomniac [4k]: 9d again?
walt: nom he is a pretty good player actually, just has a problem with time setting i think
gogonuts [5d]: its strange that kgs doesnt give him something like 4d?
gogonuts [5d]: he lost quite a few now
DnFBlitz [1k]: you have to win a game to get any rank above 10k or 1k or something
gogonuts [5d]: ah
gogonuts [5d]: thx
zeekmund [1k]: so he is forever ?
gogonuts [5d]: no 7d? for losing against a 9d :-)
gogonuts [5d]: but this is worse
insomniac [4k]: if lose robot -> 30k?
DnFBlitze [1k]: because people thought that someone with [4d?] has real kibitz power, so this was changed
gogonuts [5d]: should be changed back
gogonuts [5d]: like this zen can never trash him
gogonuts [5d]: q13 was awful btw
gogonuts [5d]: cant be that strong
sfgss [3d]: zen corner lives in sente
gogonuts [5d]: zen wins in sente :_)
zeekmund[1k]: b+already
sfgss [3d]: i'm suprising that zen still has near 70% winrate at 6d
sfgss [3d]: suprised
gogonuts [5d]: thatks to beo and freinds :-)
DnFBlitz [1k]: but it does well even with correct handicap
gogonuts [5d]: your right, its a real achievement
gogonuts [5d]: and it means its already orienting itself towrards 7d:-)
sfgss [3d]:by the way, I won 5 straight against zen 19n and 1 handi ^^
gogonuts [5d]: nice
gogonuts [5d]: 19n has the newer software, doesnt it?
sfgss [3d]: the easoest win to beat zen is a no figth game
gogonuts [5d]: that means hardware really does a lot
sfgss [3d]: yes
sfgss [3d]: well, i think zen 19n should stand at 5d easilly
gogonuts [5d]: thats not just the easiest way, its almost the only way :-)
sfgss [3d]: 4d is only temporary for it
gogonuts [5d]: except zen messing up though ko fights
sfgss [3d]: occasionally zen is beaten through tough fights
gogonuts [5d]: almost all involving a ko zen messes up ...
sfgss [3d]: just inching away its territory easily
quicsand [1d]: zen is sometimes too optimistic about abillity to kill, and gets into troubule
gogonuts [5d]: znes yose can only be judged fairly when its just slightly ahead
gogonuts [5d]: then it will show its best yose
gogonuts [5d]: and thats when its the most important :-)
sfgss [3d]: there are a few games, where zen19n is leading, but I won by yose
gogonuts [5d]: really
sfgss [3d]: yes
sfgss [3d]: check my record
gogonuts [5d]: well done
gogonuts [5d]: that should not be easy to do
sfgss [3d]: zen often too wish thinking
gogonuts [5d]: some strange groups were on the board?
gogonuts [5d]: best other option is for zen to misinterpret group status
Ootakamoku [-]: gogo, how strong do u think w is watching this game?
sfgss [3d]: zen assumes that some moves are sente at yose, just ignore them and get the big ones
gogonuts [5d]: I cant really say
sfgss [3d]: I think I get back over 20 points at yose in a few games with zen19n
gogonuts [5d]: i hated q13 and b had a won position quickly
sfgss [3d]: and won by less tahn 10
Ootakamoku [-]: he claimed to be really strong, but doesnt feel quite as strong as he claims, tho he is obviously a dan player at very least.
gogonuts [5d]: thats remarkable
sfgss [3d]: yeah, beo is maybe 3d-4d
Ootakamoku [-]: ya, my feeling too
gogonuts [5d]: to his benefit, he doesnt seem aclimated to zen yet
sfgss [3d]: many games he looks like having good chance of winning
sfgss [3d]: but lost all in the end
Ootakamoku [-]: yup, zen thinks its moves are sente alot more often than they are, troughout the game, maybe its eaiser to evaluate if something is truly sente or not in yose, but zen surely does the same in midgame and can be punished forit big time
sfgss [3d]: yes
sfgss [3d]: it's important to find zen's moves that are fake sente and puished them well
gogonuts [5d]: but it will mostly play pseudo-sente in bad positions
Ootakamoku [-]: what u mean with that gogo?
sfgss [3d]: fortuately zen 19n is slow version, so I have time to think
sfgss [3d]: at 15s games, I do not dare to ignore
gogonuts [5d]: and will try to shove even more sente down your throat
sfgss [3d]: right

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